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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jan 29, 2010 8:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I dont have a problem with audience recordings when no soundboard circulates for a performance.

What I find highly offensive are matrices! How could aduterating a pristine Eaton or Cantor sourced Charlie Miler soundboard with crowd sounds possibly enhance a listening experience? Its like adding a laugh track to a TV show...

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jan 29, 2010 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

" How could aduterating a pristine Eaton or Cantor sourced Charlie Miler soundboard with crowd sounds possibly enhance a listening experience?"

I don't ever download them myself. I allmsot always go with the SBD but I will say to answer your question that one example I can think of where it might enhance is 6-22-73. I haven't bothered to hear the matrix but I always prefer the aud to the sbd. The SBD has much lower levels and the full sound doesn't come out as good as the AUD in my opinion.

See I find that one thing that is often missing when listening to the SBD is the actual tone of the band and sometimes you need to get the depth to hear it, like the way the notes travled and bounced off things. Can't really explain it but it's not about crowd noise. Course it needs to be a really good aud for me to prefer it over the SBD - some examples are the Frost 82 shows, the 9/75 Golden gate Park show, Watkins Glen soundcheck.

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Poster: high flow Date: Jan 29, 2010 5:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I agree Johnny. It seems that magical reverb is present on early SBDs(they way you can hear the dirty guitar make the cymbals shiver). I instantly think of 68 and 71. There is some sort of collective HUMMMMM(not bad, or hiss) which does not exist on most SBDs after 1974. It's non-existent on most of the 79-84 SBDs.

I guess it's due in part to equipment change and perhaps the size and acoustics(or lack)of the venues post-74.

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Poster: groovernut Date: Jan 29, 2010 11:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

I think they can be cool... Layering sound creates a richer fuller sound.... just like an HRDI image... go look it up.

I excellent thing is we have both.

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Poster: dogsinapile! Date: Jan 29, 2010 8:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

100% agree!
Never quite got the whole "matrix" thing. Especially the ones made after the fact - they sound so fake for lack of a better description. I don't mind some of the ones made in real time though. Sometimes mixing in an ambient mic with the board feed adds some depth, but it has to be done in real time and with a light touch.

On the other hand, I do enjoy some late 80's/early 90's shows. I can usually find something that appeals to me from just about any era. When I listen to a great 68 or 73 or 74 show, I'm not looking for songs/sounds from the latter years and vice-versa.

I believe that there is something worthwhile to be found from all eras of the music.


This post was modified by dogsinapile! on 2010-01-29 16:43:28

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 29, 2010 1:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

Hey CLIFF & DIAP: I think the ENTIRE matrix thing is attributable to 8-6-71.

Anyone agree with this hypothesis? The whole notion that everyone agrees H2H is hot because of the lock step crowd reaction with Jerry's outstanding lead...

My idea is that this caused folks to think you have to mix in both to achieve nirvana. I don't buy it...sure, I appreciate it "worked" in that particular instance, but I think it stands up even with the SBD on RTrips.

Anyone else?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jan 29, 2010 2:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

"got borned"??

That 4am knock on the door? The Grammar Gestapo just made a housecall, buddy...

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 29, 2010 3:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

Yep; and to think I mentioned Strunk and White today...blasphemy.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jan 29, 2010 1:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

8/6/71..that could be the birth. An original matrix- where both the SB & and an Aud mike are recording live.
I enjoy the later matrix's when the crowd reaction is relevent to the excitment of the show. Seamons does grate work with most of the shows he's worked on.

On the other hand, idle crowd banter is negative & some SB's are too sterile for me

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Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Jan 29, 2010 1:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned


Don't fuck with my levels

http://www.archive.org/details/gd82-07-28.fob-senn421.wise.4980.sbefail.shnf

AUDs Rule!!

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Poster: dogsinapile! Date: Jan 29, 2010 2:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

I would much rather listen to an audience recording than a matrix. I taped shows for about 115 years and still have all my gear. Just don't get out that much to record anymore.

I do prefer board tapes for the older stuff, but I like a good audience of shows I attended.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 29, 2010 2:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

Hey--us oldsters can appreciate this...in the future, I will try to abbrev your handle as "dogs" as the other one...well...it makes me think of "depends"...I know you'll understand since I do.

Speaking of such, I am still hoping to hear all is well with the most recent hip work; I am waiting another six months for the "new" knee...

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Poster: dogsinapile! Date: Jan 29, 2010 2:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

Yeah the DIAP does look like an abbreviation for diaper. I had never thought of it before though, but I do answer to many things - some of which can't be posted in mixed company.

The hips are doing great. Last October/November they found an infection and treated me with IV anti-biotics for six weeks. That seems to have cured all the aching and discomfort. I feel better than I have since about 2005 or so... Too bad it took 4 surgeries to get here.

I feel for you and the knee replacement. Hope all goes well. My advice is be patient with your recovery and don't rush it. Time heals!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 29, 2010 2:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

Good news!

And don't worry bout me--as we discussed with Mando, I already have a supply of metamucil and...well...okay, in the interest of Forum Decorum, I'll leave it at that.

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Poster: dogsinapile! Date: Jan 29, 2010 2:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

What? Me worry?

I am excited right now because we are expecting a big winter storm here in Central NC. Supposed to get somewhere around 12" of snow in the next 24 hours or so. WOOO!!! HOOO!!! Beer drinking and listening to some Good Ol' Grateful Dead sounds like what I'll be ding this weekend.
Don't have to go back to work until Tuesday!
I LOVE IT!!!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 29, 2010 2:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

Ah--sounds good! Makes wish I had a fireplace in this furnace we call home out West...enjoy!

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Poster: user unknown Date: Jan 29, 2010 4:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: How matrixes got borned

They're tellin' us 12" to 18" here in southside VA. That would be more than the last several winters combined.

On the subject at hand, it is hard to make generalizations about the aud/sbd/mtx comparison. There is too much variation with each type of recording. I'll take a clean aud over a flat board anyday. But, the reverse can be true and good sbd beats a noisy, off level aud. As far as the matrix, it can only be as good as the aud and sbd that were used for the combination...a flat sbd + a noisy aud = 1 loust mtx.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Jan 29, 2010 9:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Train Wrecks (Dead Related)

"Its like adding a laugh track to a TV show... "....no need for that around here!

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